Health care debate installment: Suzy, Timmy, et al.

Suzy: Please don’t let health care reform fade away – just because the media isn’t talking about it every five seconds doesn’t mean it isn’t a dire issue.

Timmy: I’m not insured, and I don’t think it’s a right. Reform will now come as it should – incrementally. Example: in a couple weeks the house takes away insurance companies’ anti-trust exemption. Then, pre-existing conditions. That artists don’t have health insurance is not society’s problem, ‘unjust’ as it may be. And so on. Great story, though, despite its misplaced argument, thanks for sharing!

Suzy: I absolutely think it is a right to take care of our people. If one person’s quality of life is reduced because they cannot get proper medical care yours will be reduced too in some way that you can’t even imagine. If those around you aren’t doing well, how can you do well?

You don’t live in a vacuum Timmy. Uninsured people are everyone’s problem. The mentality that “I got mine so get your own” in regard to the basic resource as medical care is what is completely fucking up this country.

I like the quote from Michael Moore’s article, I share his feelings explicitly, please read:

“I feel that the products of scientific research that save lives belong to the human race. Science is a gift to the world. It should not be owned or sold or hoarded by the rich. You shouldn’t have to be a financier or a prime minister or an employ of Salon to get this health care. You should get it because you’re human. That should be enough.” –Michael Moore

Timmy: An obligation to care for others or a right to receive care? These are unclear and unshared moral obligations at best. And on that line, we should have ‘rights’ (an abused term) to a lot of things.

This debate requires more concrete arguments than a karmic causality. I might get an infection in a state hospital, or obtain an inferior treatment to that of a physician-run hospital. Neither seems desirable.

I already rebutted your second point about selfishness – I don’t got mine, I don’t want it, which magnified to a generation (plus there aren’t enough of us, and the trough had been picked already) is drying the well. This is the real problem: entitlements are killing us. Insurance markets (costs) are jacked precisely because of government involvement. 

Finally, in order: they do, but only air belongs to all. It is an arduous process, not a gift. Talk to those who have patented genes. You should be responsible for yourself. We’ve never had it so good, which is good enough for me – and for you!

Lucy: Public health care is good in theory but we can’t afford it. This nation is already too deep in debt. If I ran my company like the government (generally speaking) has run this country, I would be living on the streets. I work hard for my accomplishments and do not feel it is my duty to take care of those who don’t. Not saying that everyone who doesn’t have health care doesn’t work hard, because Lord knows the first few years in working for myself I did not have health care. I find it really difficult to write that tax check every year knowing that it’s going to be used unwisely. Government needs to take their grabby little hands out of my pockets and start using what they already have wisely before they start marching up and down the streets chanting “one for all and all for one” and singing “we are the world”. I’m fighting right now in the Virginia General Assembly to keep the government from letting criminals out of jail with no accountability. And the mantra our opposition is singing is that all accused, despite financial solvency should be let out of jail “free”. So what? We give everything away for free? How do we afford all of that? If we keep going down this road, the peso will be more valuable than the dollar.

Suzy: I think you are misunderstanding the point. If we all pool our money into a universal health care system we will all be well taken care of. And in a great society we should be conscious of everyone. I never said we should get something for free but we certainly need to reconstruct the current system to actually work so that it doesn’t rape our citizens who are hardworking.

Our current system has caused health care costs to be driven up and the middle class struggles to pay for health insurance. That isn’t right.

And Timmy, just because you want to refuse your needs doesn’t mean that others should. Wanting to be healthy in a country that has all of the resources available IS NOT ENTITLEMENT. Wanting to survive isn’t entitlement. Getting access to affordable healthcare shouldn’t be a luxury. Going into debt because you had to pay a ridiculous deductible after paying each month on a premium when you had an appendicitis and don’t have a job that pays 100K a year is not an ideal system. Just saying.

Lucy: I’ve read the bill, talked it over, even compared it with friends in Germany who have a socialized healthcare system…Their taxes are ridiculous. It sounds nice, gives us that warm and fuzzy feeling, but remember, you will pay for it. I stand firm that I do not want to pay my “fair share” just because I make more money than my neighbor. If I were still teaching and making pennies, I still wouldn’t want to pay my “fair share”. My husband tells this joke: (I’m going to shorten it a bit because I’m kind of burned out from being at the Gen Assembly all day)

A father and daughter are having a conversation about Dem v Rep. The daughter says, “We need to take care of everyone, no matter what.” Her father asks her, “How are your grades?” “They’re great, dad, straight A’s & I’ve got really hard classes this year.” Her dad asks, “How’s your roommate’s grades?” “Oh man, she’s not doing so well. She’s not going to class, not turning in homework and drinking all night.” “Wow, well how about we take 2 grade points from your A and add it to her F, so you both will have a C average…” The daughter looks at her dad with disbelief, “No way!!! I worked hard for those grades; I don’t want to share them with a slacker!!!” He father looks calmly at her and says, “Welcome to the Republican Party.”

I’m also reminded by something my grandfather used to tell me all the time. I can still hear him tell me this- it is not how much money you make, it’s what you do with it that counts. I don’t put any weight behind an argument based on how much money a person makes. Not when I see people pulling out several thousands of dollars out of them pocket wrapped around an EBT card. Not when I am proof that a person can make $34k a year with a Master’s degree and still manage to buy a house, a car and not be in any really serious debt. And I was not house poor…I vacationed, partied, did everything I wanted to do.

Do I think the healthcare system we are currently entangled in sucks? Absolutely. Do I think socialized medicine is the way to go? Absolutely not. Do I have the end all, be all answer? Not even close. What I am certain of though is I don’t want my representatives bullied into making a decision because our president says “This health care plan will be approved by X date.” When our lawmakers allow themselves to be bullied into voting one way or another, they have absolutely lost sight of what the voters, the people they represent, want/need.

I would say they need to start with commonsense and work from there. Just like the rest of us.

Joey: I am self employed. I have employees. I pay taxes. I will not pay for anyone’s heath care expenses that do not work for me! My money will not go to lazy motherfu@ers that don’t want to work! Especially when I can’t afford to help my own employees who do get up to go to work every god damn day! Any questions?

Timmy: Check out this great breakdown of the historical accidents that produced the system we have now.

There is no good reason but for remnants of unions’ heydays that healthcare, or any benefits for that matter, are tied to employment. The car ins example too frequently used wrongly does actually hold here and only here: I get it, I maintain the policy, I take it with me anywhere, it is tied to me alone; requiring ins to the point of penalty may be good on the roads, but as the other side of the ‘have it because you’re human’ argument is wrong i.e. ‘Get it or get penalized’ is wholly unconstitutional, for starters.

Witness how Bush’s social security privatization proposal, though short on its own, was totally on target in intent. think of the talk now to form a commission to make hard choices – cut spending and entitlements while raising taxes – because of our deficit/debts – this, because government was already spending more than it took in. And I’m talking about California or New York, notwithstanding the Bush years. Where is this spending (redistribution)? Medicare, Medicaid, Social Security! It’s tragic how every graph rises to the right.

The leveling effect in the father/daughter talk is correct. Free riders at the bottom sacrifice advance (admittedly expensive) at the top. The good news is, can be said of capitalism also, the best gets cheaper and thus more widely available i.e. To all!

To be continued…